Capital Punishment

**oakland_raiders** · April 19th, 2006, 09:19 AM

Got to debate this in class tommorrow...whats everybodys views on it...I am all for it

**jtw61194** · April 19th, 2006, 09:50 AM

There was a website (can't remember which one, sorry) that detailed all the offenses committed by VA's death row inmates. If I ever had a doubt about capital punishment, that ended it quickly. With that having been said, I have been trying to follow the trial of the Aryan Brotherhood prison gang in California. As one article put it, they kill more often (inside prisons) than the Mafia does outside. Some of those guys are eligible for the death penalty. The case covers roughly 40 years of mayhem in some of the toughest, most restrictive prisons. Why has it taken so long to do something about it? I understand that the people who have been killed are pretty bad dudes, but why hasn't something been done so that a very small percentage of the prison population can be controlled. Seems to me that the death penalty is very foggy and inconsistently used.

April 19th, 2006, 09:52 AM

If the crime is severe, but what if the justice system is wrong, who has to pay for it all, what makes the system any better than the killers if the system takes a life? [img]/LDPforum/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] Sounds like a fun class. [img]/LDPforum/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img](by the way ,this isn't my opinion- just my thoughts for the class)

April 19th, 2006, 10:03 AM

[ QUOTE ]
The case covers roughly 40 years of mayhem in some of the toughest

[/ QUOTE ] I'd wager that someone has gotten in some good time in the court system, filing appeal after appeal- asking for an extension, "This matter is of the utmost importance to the case" . Yeah, and it keeps the ball in play for years....Death Row looks like one of the easiest places for a lawyer to drag things out, and no judge is gonna rush things- they aren't paying for it and our system promises them a fair chance. However ,many of our laws need overhauled, "War" (getting gang related crimes out the regular court system) should be declared on gangs, then it would move things from the way are seen now to an atmosphere that would favor law enforcement.

**jtw61194** · April 19th, 2006, 10:22 AM

One of the things that I didn't make clear was the two types of criminals (in my opinion) that are in this particular prison gang. The first is the drugged out bank robber or dealer who will do anything to get his drugs inside, make some money, and be protected. The second is the guy who already has life for murder. Now, if you were either of the two, what would stop you from contract killings on the inside and outside? The majority of these gang members are in Marion, ADX Florence, or one of the supermax prisons in California. They don't seem to fear anything. Now, I'm not skilled in ethics or law, but it seems that some of these guys, as well as other gang members on the outside, pretty much don't care about the value of human life. Executing one may save another two or three innocent victims. And, while I'm at it, let me rant about the drug thing. I'm not a drug user (illegal that is) but I find it hard to believe that you can do more time for selling drugs in some places than killing someone or violating a child. Seems to me that we, as a society, need to back off the "war on drugs" and launch the "war on violence and exploitation." Organized crime in the U.S. took root during Prohibition and that's what is happening now with the illegal drug market. Just because booze is legal doesn't mean everybody will drink and our country will go down the toilet. I think the same is true for drugs. Those who want to be junkies will be junkies. Those who don't will steer clear. Legalizing drugs will drive the price down (the government could even take over and control the manufacture and distribution) and the gangs wouldn't be making the money or the mayhem that they are now. I actually argued this very point about 15 years ago in college. Just an opinion and I'd love to debate more on it.

**sic** · April 19th, 2006, 10:56 AM

I am actually for it also.

**greencrest1272** · April 19th, 2006, 10:59 AM

This topic has been run into the dirt over and over again.

**smarty** · April 19th, 2006, 11:34 AM

against, but I won't this to turn into a big argument where everyone bashes me and tells me how stupid liberals are so I'll leave it at that.

April 19th, 2006, 11:40 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Now, I'm not skilled in ethics or law, but it seems that some of these guys, as well as other gang members on the outside, pretty much don't care about the value of human life. Executing one may save another two or three innocent victims...Seems to me that we, as a society, need to back off the "war on drugs" and launch the "war on violence and exploitation." Organized crime in the U.S. took root during Prohibition and that's what is happening now with the illegal drug market. Just because booze is legal doesn't mean everybody will drink and our country will go down the toilet. I think the same is true for drugs. Those who want to be junkies will be junkies. Those who don't will steer clear. Legalizing drugs will drive the price down (the government could even take over and control the manufacture and distribution) and the gangs wouldn't be making the money

[/ QUOTE ] You may not be skilled in ethics or law, but you seem to have a pretty good grip on "right OR wrong" not "wright and rong" as it seems to the courts and laws that are tied to it today. Throwing out a case because of mmm ....lack of being read your "rights" is one I never could understand , for example. And the last part, we have a drug problem, it isn't getting smaller, the government will let you mail-order about anything, in some states. If you get the priorities in line, I think the whole problem would fall in line to solved (at least it would be the start) , the killers and attackers of the kids is another matter altogether. After some reading, I think some of the drug sentences come from the train of thought that if, "These kids have to have these drugs, they will sell anything- including themselves" and that is part of the reason for the amount of time connected. In the 70s the pushers in Ohio would give you enough to get you started using in elementary school, by the time you hit high school, you had a habit and needed a way to support it. These folks were pros, I'm not talking about ,"Whatcha ya gonna do after school?" and hanging out. People that were looking at the next generation of customers and their income.

**jtw61194** · April 19th, 2006, 12:08 PM

I understand what you are saying, but I, for one, respect the opposing view. To only see one side of the argument and damning anything but your own viewpoint is an uneducated and unhealthy way to go about life. I am for capital punishment, but I respect somebody who has taken the time to think about what they are saying and has justified their beliefs based on their own morals and principles. Liberals/conservatives and right/left are all crap to me. Sometimes you believe in something because you believe in it. And it may be inconsistent with other thoughts in the abovementioned categories. But, if I don't agree with it, it should make me look at my viewpoints and make sure they are correct and that only strengthens the resolve to make change. Nothing wrong with that, is there?